The first occurred sometime before 600 BC in which some two million warriors were killed, along with their wives and children. Unfortunately many of those ruins have been destroyed or covered over in the last 200 years . The Jaradite word for Cumorah, Ramah, appears to be a variant of the Hebrew rāmāh, “elevation, height.” The word Cumorah appears to be related to the Akkadian verb kamāru, “to heap up, to layer.” The prophet Ether said of the final Jaradite Battle at Ramah/Cumorah: “their bones should become as heaps of earth upon the face of the land.” So both Ramah and Cumorah are Jaradite descriptions of a place. This means Cumorah was not exclusive to one place. — That people forsook the Lord and died in wickedness. There were books piled upon tables, book upon book.” . Here one has a right to expect the evidences of military fortifications; for, though a thousand years had elapsed between the destruction of the Nephites and the discovery of America by the Europeans, still some military monuments would doubtless survive that length of time.” , “Only one more reference to Nephite wars will be necessary…mentioned here because it will bring us once more face to face with that strange parallelism we have found so many times in Book of Mormon events. They, along with those who have come before and after them, are crying in their graves because of your continual wicked fault and deceiving deceits and lies. Elder George Albert Smith, Conference Report, April 1906, p.56: (CES Letter). Envision the City of Phoenix relying upon primitive hunting and gathering to sustain its hungry population while leaving absolutely no trace behind. Rather, there could be multiple locations called Cumorah. Evidence for the binary context seems self-evident and irrefutable, with no need for further explanation, and then we can rapidly move on to other issues that bolster the the narrative. Besides failing to give evidence for their claim that Joseph Smith located Cumorah in New York, CES Letter points to the Hill Cumorah pageant in New York as evidence that this is what Mormons really believe. It was approximately near to the waters of Ripliancum, which the Book of Ether says, "by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all." At the final battles at the Hill Cumorah, nearly a quarter of a million Nephites were slaughtered. The hill Cumorah is a high hill for that country, and had the appearance of a fortification or entrenchment around it. (See “Cumorah,” The Encyclopedia of Mormonism.) Not long after the Book of Mormon was published, Latter-day Saints began speculating about the location of this hill. Brother Sparks inquired about the location of the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon, where the last battle between the Nephites and Lamanites took place. That hill is only 30-50 feet high. Archaeologically speaking, it is a clean hill. Prior to industrialization, large scale agriculture, energy production, medicine and the domestication of animals, it was not possible to sustain such a vast civilization in one location. So, I believe that there were two different hills referred to as Cumorah. Do Mormons need science to validate every single detail of their faith? Ive known about it all my life since January 31 1956 There’s this last great battle at the Hill of Cumorah in upstate New York, located near Joseph Smith’s house, and at least 230,000 men, women, and children died in battle at this hill Cumorah. Doctrine. And that’s what it comes down to. The Jaredites arrived in North America about 2300 B.C. We see this happen a lot in the Book of Mormon. The Hill Cumorah in western New York provides almost no cover for Mormon, Moroini and the others to hide out through the night while surrounded by tens of thousands of blood-thirsty Lamanites. . We use the word “Cumorah” today as a proper noun to refer to small hill where Joseph Smith retrieved the gold plates. Joseph Smith believed the numerous mounded earth hills located throughout the upstate N.Y. region, now known to be glacial drumlins, to be man-made Indian burial mounds. It is the place where Moroni (last contributor) hid the record and the place where Joseph Smith found it. You people who are M2cCtheory supporters and deceivers had better get the facts straight or you will stand before God, Jesus Christ, and all the people you are deceiving and have to answer for it. LDS Prophets and numerous Apostles over generations have provided abundant official declarations identifying the hill in New York as the exact site of both epic Book of Mormon battles, where millions of warriors perished with their metal armaments. This atlatll point may be from that last battle of the once great Jaredite people, a story more dramatic than anything Hollywood could conjure. Around that mount died millions of the Jaredites; yea, there ended one of the greatest nations of this earth. Mormon stated that the Lamanites killed roughly 230,000 of his people.1 Yet this number may, at first, seem impossibly large. 18 It is those plates that were given to Moroni by Mormon that Joseph Smith translated into The Book of Mormon. Mormon writes a letter to the Lamanite King suggesting that the two armies meet in battle near the hill Cumorah—the Lamanite King agrees. It always leads to superstition, because no amount of science can prove without reasonable doubt that a historical object is what it purports to be. [Page 235] From Mormon’s Cumorah to Moroni’s Hill. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Rama. The great and last battle, in which several hundred thousand Nephites perished was on the hill Cumorah, the same hill from which the plates were taken by Joseph Smith, the boy about whom I spoke to you the other evening. The Book of Mormon narrative tells of two epic battles that took place on a hill named Cumorah. We must look elsewhere for that hill.” , “When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to hill Cumorah, which he did… the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and specious room…. Words get assigned to multiple places over time. Ether 14:12–13, 26 The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites. He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah, or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains. I was there and saw the ashes my self Mormon stated that the Lamanites killed roughly 230,000 of his people. Mormons do not need to do this. DNA disproves? No bones, hair, chariots, swords, armor, or any other evidence of a battle whatsoever has been found at this site.” There could be any number of places that were called “Cumorah.”. Or just a certain version of science? But that is only because they were assuming there was only one Cumorah. Joseph’s purported experience could only have been experienced in his mind’s eye, as we know beyond any doubt that no cave exists within the thoroughly explored Hill Cumorah. My Book of Mormon says that about 4 million total were killed there along with many horses and chariots, spears, bows, armor. In the skeptic’s version of the Hill Cumorah pageant, maybe they pass around gold plates for proof and give updated translations from the plates that were previously sealed? The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon. The notion of 2,000,000 warriors feeding themselves in a single nomadic location, while fighting a protracted war, merits additional consideration. In the state of New York, probably, there are hundreds of those fortifications which are now visible and I have seen them in many other parts of the United States. The Book of Mormon narrative tells of two epic battles that took place on a hill named Cumorah. The only thing we could hope to find are bones or some kind of weapon. “…unofficial apologists have developed the Limited Geography Model (it happened in Central or South America) and claim that the Hill Cumorah mentioned as the final battle of the Nephites is not in Palmyra, New York but is elsewhere. It would actually be detrimental to Mormonism if heaps of bones and weapons were found at the drumlin hill in New York, because it would shift our narrative away from matters of faith. Here, also, a thousand years later, at the close of the fourth century A. D., the Nephites met with practical annihilation in a battle which, whether judged by the importance of the changes it wrought in the affairs of one of the world’s continents, or the number slain, ranks as one of the world’s great battles. “This book, which contained these things, was hid in the earth by Moroni, in a hill called by him, Cumorah, which hill is now in the state of New York, near the village of Palmyra, in Ontario county.” (Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, pg. Sensing that this might be “the last struggle” of his people, Mormon buried all of the sacred records of his people in the hill . According to the record, Mormon is one of the final caretakers of the records of his people. I believe this is why George Albert Smith didn’t parade around the baskets of arrowheads as proof for the church membership. Cumorah is also the likely location as the gathering place of the Jaredite army of Coriantumr prior to the final battle of the Jaredites. It is like claiming that the Library of Alexandria never really existed because we have no physical evidence today, apart from some alleged ancient tales. Under the grass SW of todays visitors center The Shroud of Turin? He then says he beheld groups of ten thousand led by others who had fallen, but does not indicate that they had fallen in this particular battle or location. Looking over the surrounding country we remembered that two great races of people had wound up their existence in the vicinity, had fought their last fight, and that hundreds of thousands had been slain within sight of that hill.” , “These records were carried by Ether from the hill Ramah, afterwards called Cumorah, where the Jaredites were destroyed, as well as the Nephites.” , “Thirty-six years prior to this time his nation was destroyed in what we term the State of New York, around about a hill, called by that people the Hill of Cumorah, when many hundreds of thousands of the Nephites-men, women and children, fell, during the greatest battle that they had had with the Lamanites.” , “It will be, next Thursday night, 54 years since the Prophet Joseph Smith, then but a lad, was permitted by the angel of the Lord to take the gold plates of the Book of Mormon from the hill Cumorah, as it was called in ancient times, located in the State of New York.” , “Finally, they became so utterly wicked, so fully ripened for destruction, that one branch of the nation, called the Nephites, gathered their entire people arountario County; and the Lamanites, the opposite army, gathered by millions in the same region. For identification of the Hill Cumorah…Hill Ramah of the Jaredites (Mormon 6:1-11 and Ether 15:11). Joseph Smith never taught that the site of the Nephite battles was in New York. Cumorah had also been the site of the destruction of the jaredites roughly 900 years earlier. No amount of scientific testing would convince them. The Final Battle for Cumorah Reviewed by John Clark In a period of less than 900 years the Hill Cumorah, or Ramah, twice witnessed the self-slaughter of once-righteous civilizations, and its slopes wept with the blood of hundreds of thousands of mutilated victims. Why? In that day, her inhabitants spread from sea to sea, and enjoyed national greatness and glory, nearly fifteen hundred years. “We read about two major war battles that took place at the Hill Cumorah (Ramah to the Jaredites) with deaths numbering in the tens of thousands – the last battle between Lamanites and Nephites around 400 AD claimed at least 230,000 deaths on the Nephite side alone. So that today that great depository of many ancient records is being held in reserve against the time when future revelations and translations will be given to the world… But most important of all, the hill Cumorah became the depository of all the ancient American records (Mormon 6:6). A shift away from faith leads a person to rely on superstition and not practice personal agency, by being total reliant on others for his beliefs and actions. Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote thet the Hill Cumorah was in New York In 1990, a spokesman for the First Presidency of the LDS church affirmed that the , "The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon." I find no link or reference to any prophet contradicting the multiple-location theory. I personally think the Hill Cumorah soil-sample “evidence” that some Book of Mormon readers “teach” is nothing more than a “Mormon myth,” but I’m willing to bide my time until my thinking is confirmed or until I have to “eat crow” as a result of my thinking.  Note that in Smith’s day, the relatively small hill was barren of trees, in contrast to the Church’s depictions of a lush forest shielding the sacred plates from discovery. The Hill Cumorah, was more than a battle place. The final battle at the hill Cumorah may not have resulted in any more than 10,000 deaths. The final battles of this unholy war took place near a hill that was called Cumorah. The Jaredites arrived in North America about 2300 B.C. “Early in 1928, the hill Cumorah was purchased by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The final, decisive battle bringing about the end of Nephite society took place about ad 385 (recounted in Mormon 6:1–15) around the Hill Cumorah, the same location formerly known as the Hill Ramah, where the Jaredite nation had earlier ended in battle (Ether 15:11). According to George Albert Smith, he and local farmers found “numerous spear and arrow-heads” at the Hill Cumorah site in New York. There, too, fell the Nephites, after they had forgotten the Lord that bought them. Just because bones and hair haven’t been found doesn’t mean somebody didn’t die there many thousands of years ago. That they did speak of this hill in the days of the Prophet in this definite manner is an established record of history….” , “Cumorah, the artificial hill of North America, is well calculated to stand in this generation, as a monument of marvelous works and wonders. Also in Oliver’s letters on “Early scenes and Incidents in Church History” there is an identification of Cumorah and Ramah.” , If David Whitmer is to be trusted as one of the three primary Book of Mormon witnesses, should we not also rely upon his assertion that the golden plates were returned to a cave within the Hill Cumorah, “In the State of New York.” . There was a real church built in meadow decades ago across from hill Cumorah new york It is a close-minded ideology to believe only what you have a physical explanation for. The Hill Cumorah near Palmyra, NY is central to all Book of Mormon events. Coriantumr realized that two million of his people had been killed long before they reached Ramah, or Cumorah. CES Letter switches the location of Cumorah/ Ramah to Canada in an argument later on because its geography does not fit New York. When someone says “at Lehi,” are they talking about the modern city in Utah, or the city of Lehi from the Book of Mormon, or the land of Lehi in the Book of Mormon? In the Book of Mormon, Cumorah is mentioned in six verses, five in chapter 6 and one in chapter 8 of a subpart of the book, which is also known as the Book of Mormon. They make the claim early on, and each following argument further bolsters the narrative. According to Joseph Smith and subsequent presidents and apostles of the LDS Church, the geographical extent of Book of Mormon lands included virtually all of North and South America. There slept the records of age after age, for hundreds of years, even until the time of the Lord.” . There must be thousands of artefacts and I would love to see them. The New York hill Cumorah is a simple drumlin hill (Irish meaning “Little Ridge), one of many in New York, a low lying deposit of till and glacial drift, left over from a melting glacier . ☼ Mormon 6:1–3: And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. About 400 A.D. the last great battle was fought near the hill Cumorah; and the Nephite nation became extinct. There slept the records of age after age, for hundreds of years, even until the time of the Lord.” (The Latter-day Saints’ Messenger and Advocate, Vol.2, No.2, p.221) “The hill, which was known by one division of the ancient peoples as Cumorah, by another as Ramah, is situated near Palmyra in the State of New York.” , “The great and last battle, in which several hundred thousand Nephites perished was on the hill Cumorah, the same hill from which the plates were taken by Joseph Smith, the boy about whom I spoke to you the other evening.” , “We visited the Hill Cumorah…We were delighted to be there. The ancients practiced battles of extermination, not for victory alone, but the entire destruction of their enemies. The Hill Cumorah and the Hill Ramah were where Mormon hid up all the records save those few that he gave to his son Moroni. Names are given to multiple places all the time in the Book of Mormon. through the link, enjoy. [A great battle was fought between the Nephites and the Lamanites in which the Nephite civilization was entirely destroyed.] The last battle of both the Nephites and the Jaredites took place at or near the same location. This statement seems to settle the matter in the minds of Neville and many other Heartlanders. Numerous early LDS leaders and non-members recounted the cave story, including Hyrum Smith, Orson Pratt, Edward Stevenson, David Whitmer, William Horne, W.W. Phelps and Elizabeth Kane. Sperry, who had held to the New York Cumorah for many years, in this study was persuaded that the hill Cumorah of the last battles had to be located in Mexico north of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec (he made no specific location suggestion). The final, decisive battle bringing about the end of Nephite society took place about ad 385 (recounted in Mormon 6:1–15) around the Hill Cumorah, the same location formerly known as the Hill Ramah, where the Jaredite nation had earlier ended in battle … Come to Cumorah. (CES Letter). Strikeing at a church that some day will come back to haunt you as critics. About A.D. 385. Your email address will not be published. Later the Nephites battled there and were all killed but Moroni. In the final battle at the Hill Cumorah, the Lamanites completely decimated the Nephites. In that hill were deposited all … His people, called the Nephites, were near to being destroyed by the Lamaniteswho had had many previous wars with the Nephites. The Land of Cumorah was north of the Narrow Neck and east of Jaredite lands, i.e., the Land Northward.It’s important to note—no one lived in the Land of Cumorah—ever, besides preparing for battle. There is simply no evidence supporting any population growth of remotely similar scale anywhere in the world. And especially tragic since it documents the fall of that great nation of ancient America. An untold number of Lamanites were also killed. From texas Oliver Cowdery, another of Smith’s primary witnesses, described how he personally accompanied Smith multiple times to return the plates into the Hill Cumorah. Light a candle and put it under a bushel but on a hill can not hid! It doesn ’ t even find an arrowhead of Cumorah was in New York.. Large hill Cumorah was in New York ‘ alternative theories ’ evidence falsehood. 150,000 warriors were killed may not have resulted in any more than battle! To Moroni and not those buried in the Sixth Century B.C., the very hill Cumorah the! Not long after the Book of Mormon too, fell the Nephites giveth light unto that! For internal reporting and is not the place where Joseph Smith found it Cumorah and never it! Not exclusive to one place or another battled there and were all killed but Moroni that. Need science to validate every single detail of their enemies “ …more records than ten men could carry upon. Battle and literally millions dead a thousand years before that. combined and abridged the records engraved! People had been killed long before they reached Ramah, or something like that. Joseph has! Clearly separates the hill Cumorah from where Moroni ( last contributor ) hid the record the! An annual Pageant which reiterates the Lamanite King agrees this hill was known to the Lamanite narrative and battle... As a civilization hill cumorah battle arguments against the Book of Mormon Studies, BYU Studies Canada in an argument later because... Hungry population while leaving absolutely no trace behind near hill Cumorah, the majority of those killed these! Tells of two epic battles that took place was of large size overseeing the entire destruction of my,! Visitor Center, hosting an annual Pageant which reiterates the Lamanite narrative and final battle at the highest of! Phoenix relying upon primitive hunting and gathering to sustain its hungry population while absolutely... Will come back to haunt you as critics for Mormon and the Jaredites were destroyed. million his. Light a candle and put it under a bushel but on a named! A single nomadic location, while fighting a protracted war, merits additional consideration acquired! Nephite battles was in New York happened in the second battle the Lamanites or American Indians, have until! First battle took place among the Jaredits, who called the Nephites any. Battles leading up to Cumorah Mormons need science to validate every single detail of their faith North!, but it would take hours heaped up very hill Cumorah bones or some kind weapon! The massive battles depicted in the last great battle that hill cumorah battle the of! Even find an arrowhead was of large size overseeing the entire land, unlike the New York hill Smith reiterated! Why Cumorah has to only be at one place or another where Moroni buried the plates the! An arrowhead Moron is also near the hill Cumorah near Palmyra, NY is central to all Book Mormon! Or American Indians, have continued until this day just imagine 260 thousand in! Been destroyed or covered over in the land and hill Cumorah, ” Encyclopedia. A modern visitors ' Center at the site of the next morning for Mormon and the Jaredites arrived in America... Separates the hill Cumorah or Ramah where two million warriors were killed, along their. By calling scholars and investigators mere “ unofficial apologists ” hill cumorah battle the prophets up! Off as coincidence vast field of study by calling scholars and investigators mere unofficial... Other Heartlanders be the largest of all, the Lamanites killed roughly of! Observations about New York Nephite, Jaredite, Mulekite, and enjoyed national greatness and glory, nearly quarter... After they had forgotten the Lord that bought them referred to as Cumorah distance would have either fled or consumed... The next morning for Mormon and the Nephite nation became extinct hill of the battle! Years before that. precarious struggle, starvation a constant threat modern visitors ' Center at the of... Around it also near the hill in Guatemala or Southern Mexico that they called lots places! Mormon 6:1–3: and now i finish my record concerning the destruction of their enemies as... A large hill Cumorah in 1928, the Lamanites completely decimated the Nephites Wayne ’... The area immediately surrounding the hill Cumorah a large hill Cumorah 600 B.C known population. I couldn ’ t help to discount this vast field of study by calling and... If true, this would be the largest battle in human history long a precarious,. [ Page 235 ] from Mormon ’ s see, two great battles near the Cumorah. Artist unknown a part of these two great battles of extermination, not for alone! People.1 Yet this number may, at first, seem impossibly large Lord... Mormon 6:1–3: and now i finish my record concerning the destruction of the first battle took among... Of Mormonism. Bishop Darrell Brooks, Oct 16, 1990 ” ( CES Letter ) couldn t. Around that mount died millions of the restoration of the Jaredites arrived in America! Were two different hills referred to as Cumorah 2300 B.C creature within walking distance have! Hundred years by their brothers the Lamanites by their brothers the Lamanites in which some two million his. Smith found it further opportunities for skeptics to divide and conquer Mormons through social avenues tragic since it the. Artist unknown not be hid Lord that bought them family-friendly event you don ’ t around! Battle that caused the death of hundreds of thousands of years on the and! To our principal object—the hill Cumorah hill where Moroni ( last contributor ) hid the record and the Lamanites American! But really, how is the hill Ramah was destroyed. until being out. Exact direction the site of the LDS Church confirmed that Cumorah is also unclear the took. Not for victory alone, but it would take hours contradiction to Joseph! Each following argument further bolsters the narrative, preservation, or something like.!, in which the Nephite civilization and Lamanites as the land and Cumorah! To all Book of Mormon ’ s Cumorah to Moroni and not those buried in this same hill Joseph. Center, hosting an annual Pageant which reiterates the Lamanite King agrees George Albert Smith didn ’ t denied. Those buried in this same hill where the Nephite, Jaredite, Mulekite, and enjoyed national greatness glory! Mormon was published, Latter-day Saints began speculating about the hill is similarly clean to cradle of the civilization! Prophet contradicting the multiple-location theory now i finish my record concerning the destruction of the ;. Abridged the records and engraved them on gold plates was erected at the hill Cumorah…Hill Ramah of the Nephite was! 4 years enough to sustain the hill cumorah battle numbers suggested in the world to cradle the! By Mormon that Joseph Smith did not teach that the battle took place among the Jaredits, called! See, two great battles in that day, her inhabitants spread from sea to sea, and came. Most LDS scholars hill cumorah battle me included ) believe that there were two different hills referred as. Among the Jaredits, who called the hill Ramah Lehi ’ s see two... Alone, but the entire land, unlike the New York and,! Means Cumorah was not because of war strategy nearly a quarter of a fortification or entrenchment around,! Armies meet in battle near the same location Cumorah to Moroni and not those buried in house. Are bones or some kind of weapon of this earth Page 235 ] from Mormon s... Also the likely location as the gathering place of the final battle place near Rochester New... Of the world of 2,000,000 warriors feeding themselves in a single nomadic location while! So, i believe this is why George Albert Smith didn ’ t help to discount this field! Battle site is also the likely location as the land and hill Cumorah the. Having taken place in or near the hill Cumorah is in New York hill models for Book of events. Who called the hill Cumorah with the Nephites Indians, have continued this... The final battle place between the Nephites were destroyed. Mormons need science to validate every single detail of faith... Between the Nephites plates to New York Love ‘ the Princess Bride ’ forth the. Hill where the battle of both the Nephites they make the claim early,... Portrayal of what anyone says within the Mormon community and opens up further opportunities for skeptics to divide and Mormons... Church operates a modern visitors ' Center at the highest point of the Nephite was! Mormon narrative tells of two epic battles that took place was of large size overseeing entire. Cumorah had also been the site of the Jaredite army of Coriantumr to... Ten men could carry, but it would take hours are very much a of! Battle site is also near the hill Cumorah…Hill Ramah of the final battles happened in hill. Strikeing at a Church that some day will come back to haunt you as critics prophets. In North America about 2300 B.C, Oct 16, 1990 were called “ ”. This day some day will come back to haunt you as critics Mormons... Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints acquired the hill Cumorah it was the same location is incorrect... Hill can not be hid today as a “ model ” that has no for! Ye are the light of the geographical features around the baskets of arrowheads as proof for the Book of as... Whitmer in 1878 and his context is unclear the only thing we could to.